Comments on: Not one, not two, not three… http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/ Nothing To Lose But Our Chains! Sun, 09 Oct 2011 19:38:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jack http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/comment-page-1/#comment-324 Jack Tue, 02 Oct 2007 00:31:38 +0000 http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/#comment-324 As you're wont to say, Jason: Huzzah! May you (and Doug, Keith, myself, and all who ride the fairest of vehicles) never have a freakin' flat again! But I must raise one sensitive topic: Are those rims that you've excruciatingly encumbered with Paselas aluminum alloy or steel? I ask only because I know that some makes/models of that vintage came with stock chrome-plated steel rims, while others had (much superior) alloy rims. The distinction doesn't have to do primarily with weight but with safety. When steel rims get wet, either in rainy or slushy conditions or simply by running through a puddle, they make you seriously, and I mean seriously lose braking power. I believe steel rims should be outlawed for this reason, frankly. So I thought it prudent (as George H.W. Bush might say) to put this on the table. Sorry to, ah, rain on the parade. As you’re wont to say, Jason: Huzzah! May you (and Doug, Keith, myself, and all who ride the fairest of vehicles) never have a freakin’ flat again! But I must raise one sensitive topic: Are those rims that you’ve excruciatingly encumbered with Paselas aluminum alloy or steel? I ask only because I know that some makes/models of that vintage came with stock chrome-plated steel rims, while others had (much superior) alloy rims. The distinction doesn’t have to do primarily with weight but with safety. When steel rims get wet, either in rainy or slushy conditions or simply by running through a puddle, they make you seriously, and I mean seriously lose braking power. I believe steel rims should be outlawed for this reason, frankly. So I thought it prudent (as George H.W. Bush might say) to put this on the table. Sorry to, ah, rain on the parade.

]]> By: Jason Crane http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/comment-page-1/#comment-323 Jason Crane Tue, 02 Oct 2007 00:05:32 +0000 http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/#comment-323 Gentlemen, Before we draw Allen wrenches at 30 paces, allow me to update my story: Tonight, I bought two more Giant tubes and tried again. Inside of 10 minutes, I had both wheels off, both tubes/tires changed, and the whole rig inflated to 70 in the front, 80 in the back. The tires stayed on just fine, and performed quite well for the five or so miles I rode this evening. As an added bonus, I figured out how to put on some new bar tape. Thanks to Jack, Doug and Keith for your help! Gentlemen,

Before we draw Allen wrenches at 30 paces, allow me to update my story:

Tonight, I bought two more Giant tubes and tried again. Inside of 10 minutes, I had both wheels off, both tubes/tires changed, and the whole rig inflated to 70 in the front, 80 in the back. The tires stayed on just fine, and performed quite well for the five or so miles I rode this evening. As an added bonus, I figured out how to put on some new bar tape. Thanks to Jack, Doug and Keith for your help!

]]> By: Jack http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/comment-page-1/#comment-322 Jack Mon, 01 Oct 2007 23:56:24 +0000 http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/#comment-322 Well, Doug, if you put it that way, I have to respond that it must be the rim. Judging from my own experience - and I've changed more tires/tubes than I care to remember - and also judging by reviews and testimonies I've accessed, the Pasela is a fine tire reasonably priced, especially when its very light weight (a significant factor on longer rides) is considered. But there's only one way to find out what's going on with Jason's rim and tire: looking at it in real life, not via cyberspace. I therefore offer to do just that at a time and place of Jason's choosing. Sounds like a duel, eh? And so it might turn out to be, when Jason and I wrestle with the recalcitrant metal and rubber. :) Well, Doug, if you put it that way, I have to respond that it must be the rim. Judging from my own experience – and I’ve changed more tires/tubes than I care to remember – and also judging by reviews and testimonies I’ve accessed, the Pasela is a fine tire reasonably priced, especially when its very light weight (a significant factor on longer rides) is considered. But there’s only one way to find out what’s going on with Jason’s rim and tire: looking at it in real life, not via cyberspace. I therefore offer to do just that at a time and place of Jason’s choosing. Sounds like a duel, eh? And so it might turn out to be, when Jason and I wrestle with the recalcitrant metal and rubber. :)

]]> By: Doug http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/comment-page-1/#comment-321 Doug Mon, 01 Oct 2007 22:33:24 +0000 http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/#comment-321 I still say it's the tires. I have over 12,000 miles on the rims I mounted the Paselas. No tire before or 4,000 miles since has blown off the rim. It's not the amount of pressure because mine were blowing up around 80 lbs of pressure. I'm not a novice tire changer either. I still say it’s the tires. I have over 12,000 miles on the rims I mounted the Paselas. No tire before or 4,000 miles since has blown off the rim. It’s not the amount of pressure because mine were blowing up around 80 lbs of pressure. I’m not a novice tire changer either.

]]> By: Jack http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/comment-page-1/#comment-317 Jack Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:16:47 +0000 http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/#comment-317 Another comment is required - to scrape some egg off my face, as if splattered there by a exploding tire: I misread 105 psi as 150. But even the former inflation is pretty high for my taste; I always recommend lowering the pressure for comfort. (Some folks believe wrongly that going to the max or even overinflating will greatly reduce rolling resistance and give more speed. Mostly it gives you a pain in the hands, crotch, etc., and it actually slows you down on rough surfaces, since much energy is expended bouncing up and down. This explains why mountain bikes are faster than road bikes on very rough roads... But anyway, accept my apologies for the numerical error. But I still think there's some flaw in the rim that has caused the trouble - could also be a sizing problem with the tire, too, etc., etc. Another comment is required – to scrape some egg off my face, as if splattered there by a exploding tire: I misread 105 psi as 150. But even the former inflation is pretty high for my taste; I always recommend lowering the pressure for comfort. (Some folks believe wrongly that going to the max or even overinflating will greatly reduce rolling resistance and give more speed. Mostly it gives you a pain in the hands, crotch, etc., and it actually slows you down on rough surfaces, since much energy is expended bouncing up and down. This explains why mountain bikes are faster than road bikes on very rough roads… But anyway, accept my apologies for the numerical error. But I still think there’s some flaw in the rim that has caused the trouble – could also be a sizing problem with the tire, too, etc., etc.

]]> By: Jack http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/comment-page-1/#comment-316 Jack Mon, 01 Oct 2007 01:59:00 +0000 http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/#comment-316 I feel duty-bound to defend the sacred Pasela to the death (its, not mine, preferably), in part because I suggested this brand/type to Jason. I rode with Paselas for a good long time with, as I recall, only one flat (a puncture, not a "blow-off"; admittedly they're not as puncture-resistant as some bombproof tires out there, but the Pasela is nice and light and smooth-rolling and fast as well as surprisingly durable on tour). In my experience, if a tire blows, as opposed to "merely" losing pressure quickly, it indicates a deeper problem. There could be some defect on the rim, or the way the tire is or isn't seated on the rim, or an infinitesimal discrepancy in rim/wheel or bead measurement. When a tire blows like a shotgun, and there's no resultant damage to the tire wall or bead, it probably means the pressure was more than what the rim could handle, in the sense of keeping the tire seated at all. The situation often arises when folks try to inflate a skinny tire at a gas station pump. I had a related problem with a 27" Continental performance road tire that twice rolled off my rear wheel when I was hard-cornering; it turned out the rim was at fault - just a fraction of a millimeter too small. Other tires have worked great in subsequent years on the same rim, and that Conti worked okay on another rim. BTW, modern "hooked" rims, which I find superior, hold the tire bead more securely and can take lots more inflation - and 150 pounds for a 28 or 32 mm tire sounds WAY too much (even really skinny wired-on road tires usually are run at less than that), whatever may be printed on the tire. I ride tires of that size/width at around 80 pounds in the rear and 70 in front; I seem to recall my old Paselas were rateed at max of 11 psi, but I could be off by a little. (There's an old Bicycling mag article, maybe available online, that explains how to match the inflation to your actual riding needs.) Anyway, back to the Pasela - I think it's a fine tire, one of the best I've used for touring. But more important, I'm sorry to hear you've had such a loud and unpleasant intro to what's never much of a pleasure - the fine art of tire-changing and (as happens in my case) profanity-hurling. Hope your next wrestling match with the pneumatic demons yields better results! I feel duty-bound to defend the sacred Pasela to the death (its, not mine, preferably), in part because I suggested this brand/type to Jason. I rode with Paselas for a good long time with, as I recall, only one flat (a puncture, not a “blow-off”; admittedly they’re not as puncture-resistant as some bombproof tires out there, but the Pasela is nice and light and smooth-rolling and fast as well as surprisingly durable on tour). In my experience, if a tire blows, as opposed to “merely” losing pressure quickly, it indicates a deeper problem. There could be some defect on the rim, or the way the tire is or isn’t seated on the rim, or an infinitesimal discrepancy in rim/wheel or bead measurement. When a tire blows like a shotgun, and there’s no resultant damage to the tire wall or bead, it probably means the pressure was more than what the rim could handle, in the sense of keeping the tire seated at all. The situation often arises when folks try to inflate a skinny tire at a gas station pump. I had a related problem with a 27″ Continental performance road tire that twice rolled off my rear wheel when I was hard-cornering; it turned out the rim was at fault – just a fraction of a millimeter too small. Other tires have worked great in subsequent years on the same rim, and that Conti worked okay on another rim. BTW, modern “hooked” rims, which I find superior, hold the tire bead more securely and can take lots more inflation – and 150 pounds for a 28 or 32 mm tire sounds WAY too much (even really skinny wired-on road tires usually are run at less than that), whatever may be printed on the tire. I ride tires of that size/width at around 80 pounds in the rear and 70 in front; I seem to recall my old Paselas were rateed at max of 11 psi, but I could be off by a little. (There’s an old Bicycling mag article, maybe available online, that explains how to match the inflation to your actual riding needs.) Anyway, back to the Pasela – I think it’s a fine tire, one of the best I’ve used for touring. But more important, I’m sorry to hear you’ve had such a loud and unpleasant intro to what’s never much of a pleasure – the fine art of tire-changing and (as happens in my case) profanity-hurling. Hope your next wrestling match with the pneumatic demons yields better results!

]]> By: Jason Crane http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/comment-page-1/#comment-314 Jason Crane Mon, 01 Oct 2007 01:48:23 +0000 http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/#comment-314 Hi Keith, 150 is a type-o in my story. It says 105 on the tire, which is definitely the level to which I inflated the tube. I'm sure of that. Thanks for reminding about the clinic. Even with no experience, though, isn't four tubes a bit weird? I've been meaning to try a TNUA ride. I'll try to make it this week. Hi Keith,

150 is a type-o in my story. It says 105 on the tire, which is definitely the level to which I inflated the tube. I’m sure of that.

Thanks for reminding about the clinic. Even with no experience, though, isn’t four tubes a bit weird?

I’ve been meaning to try a TNUA ride. I’ll try to make it this week.

]]> By: Keith http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/comment-page-1/#comment-313 Keith Sun, 30 Sep 2007 22:09:47 +0000 http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/#comment-313 First off FMV has a flat tire clinic: http://www.fullmoonvista.com/clinics.html#flat I've had good luck with the Bontrager Hardcase tires: http://bontrager.com/Road/Wheelworks/Index_Road_Tires.php Never had a flat in thousands of miles. 150 psi seems really high. Your rims might not be able to take that much pressure, even if the tires say they will. Depending on what tire width you are running, 100 psi is plenty, and much smoother feeling. I run 100 psi front / 105 rear on a 700 x 23 mm road bike. The wider the tire then less pressure. Also, if you aren;t busy on Tuesday night, check out the TNUA rides that start at the rec center in Cornhill at 6:15. A lot of fun and sometime we check out different parts of the city that you otherwise might not see - at night. First off FMV has a flat tire clinic:
http://www.fullmoonvista.com/clinics.html#flat
I’ve had good luck with the Bontrager Hardcase tires:
http://bontrager.com/Road/Wheelworks/Index_Road_Tires.php
Never had a flat in thousands of miles. 150 psi seems really high. Your rims might not be able to take that much pressure, even if the tires say they will. Depending on what tire width you are running, 100 psi is plenty, and much smoother feeling. I run 100 psi front / 105 rear on a 700 x 23 mm road bike. The wider the tire then less pressure.
Also, if you aren;t busy on Tuesday night, check out the TNUA rides that start at the rec center in Cornhill at 6:15. A lot of fun and sometime we check out different parts of the city that you otherwise might not see – at night.

]]> By: Doug http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/comment-page-1/#comment-312 Doug Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:38:28 +0000 http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/#comment-312 I'm serious! Reading that it happened to someone else confirmed for me that it was the tires and not me. I'm not the best mechanic, so I blame myself when I blow up three tubes. But what happened to you is identical to what happened to me with the same tires. It's gotta be something about the Paselas. I’m serious! Reading that it happened to someone else confirmed for me that it was the tires and not me. I’m not the best mechanic, so I blame myself when I blow up three tubes. But what happened to you is identical to what happened to me with the same tires. It’s gotta be something about the Paselas.

]]> By: Jason Crane http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/comment-page-1/#comment-311 Jason Crane Sun, 30 Sep 2007 03:06:39 +0000 http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/#comment-311 Doug, you have no idea how much I hope you're not making that up to make me feel better. Huzzah! Doug, you have no idea how much I hope you’re not making that up to make me feel better. Huzzah!

]]> By: Doug http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/comment-page-1/#comment-310 Doug Sun, 30 Sep 2007 02:59:49 +0000 http://www.rocbike.com/2007/09/29/not-one-not-two-not-three/#comment-310 IT'S NOT YOU!! It's the Panaracer Paselas. I had the exact same experience with those tires. I stopped at three tubes because I was loosing my hearing. I'm not sure why those tires are so popular. The first pair I had looked in bad shape after only 2,000 miles. The next pair I blew off the rim three times and I never used them again. I ate the cost of those tires and will never buy them again. IT’S NOT YOU!! It’s the Panaracer Paselas. I had the exact same experience with those tires. I stopped at three tubes because I was loosing my hearing. I’m not sure why those tires are so popular. The first pair I had looked in bad shape after only 2,000 miles. The next pair I blew off the rim three times and I never used them again. I ate the cost of those tires and will never buy them again.

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