Comments on: Park that attitude

By: Dave

Dave — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:20:51 +0000

I agree all trail users have something in common. If anything, we all need to work together. I don’t understand all the bike hate. If trails are properly created with drainage there is no more damage than walking. When the ground is frozen, there is no damage period. If you look at the local rail trails and Erie Canal you can see how all trail users successfully co-exist. Horses, snowmobiles, skiers, etc. As far as looking over your shoulder, you should be aware of other users. That’s life. What if a XC skier or roller blader were coming? On shared-use trails I do have issues with those who walk and ride two-wide and do not yield. Not to mention headphones so an audible warning can’t be heard (I have a very loud bell). Also, all users should stay to the right on a trail…seems common sense but its surprising…guess many hikers are used to hiking along roads on the left. Bikes are legally vehicles on the road, but how many recreational riders would take their children on the road? They need a place to ride safetly.

By: Jack

Jack — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:57:09 +0000

Here’s the relevant language from the Monroe County parks website: “Tryon Park contains 82 undeveloped acres on the western shore of Irondequoit Bay and offers hiking and natural scenic areas. This park is mainly undeveloped but offers nature enthusiasts some hiking trails… Tryon Park is open daily 7:00 a.m. until 11:00 p.m. and has a carry in-carry out rule, which means you must take all your garbage with you for disposal after leaving the park. Glass is not allowed. All pets must be leashed and you are responsible for cleaning up after them.” No mention of bikes, as you can see.
And here’s what is on the City of Rochester website, on a “Neighborhoods” page: “But what makes this neighborhood so remarkable is that all this convenience adjoins a wonderful wilderness area — Tryon Park. Perhaps the best kept secret in Rochester, this wooded oasis is tucked away at the east end of the dead end street aptly named Tryon Park. No signs mark its entrance, only a yellow metal gate across the road, but behind this inauspicious barrier are miles of trails up and down the steep hillsides. In autumn, the leaves are a riot of color and in winter the ridge tops offer panoramic views of the reedy wetlands at the southern tip of Irondequoit Bay. Despite its low-key presence, the area has long been a favorite destination spot for hikers and birders from surrounding counties and, in recent years, it challenging paths have become a mountain biking Mecca.” So this is what’s supposed to justify biking in Tryon? A webpage that clearly encourages violating county parks policy, from a source that has no jurisdiction in Tryon?
And why would a bicycle advocate oppose biking on county park trails? For exactly the same reason as the advocate affirms the right of bicycles to use the public highways: a bicycle is a VEHICLE (pardon my caps).
No vehicle belongs on a hiking/walking trail. And bicyclists should be environmentalists first, and riders second. But anyway, I made clear in my post that I’m open to allowing mountain biking on appropriate BIKING trails – i.e. dedicated, segregated and strictly policed trails – that might be constructed. That’s not what GROC is all about, though. This group wants to get that bike shoe in the door and open up the county parks generally to biking.
Moreover, I think the care-and-feeding of trails issue is a stalking horse. Maybe things are working out at Dryer Road in Victor; I’ve never been there, so I can’t comment, other to note that to judge by the town website, Dryer Road is mostly geared to sports and recreation. Quite different than the Olmstedian principles behind the quasi-wilderness and other wooded areas of the Monroe County parks system – the very areas coveted by GROC, et al.
I can’t imagine how the Monroe County parks will fare if legalized off-road cycling becomes a reality, thus empowering cyclists to roam at will, on the trails and off. My experience with the cyclists now invading the parks is that they’ll go anywhere at any speed – and isn’t doing just that the very thing that attracts them to the sport in the first place? I thank Adam for posting the images of Tryon. But everybody needs to walk the trails there on the hillsides and in the lowlands to appreciate the full extent of the damage done to the (formerly) narrow trails. The place is a freaking muddy mess – you can search for some testosterone-laced videos on YouTube that show just a bit of the problem – and Tryon’s violated slopes and soils will take a long time to heal.
Last (for now), no one should take refuge in the supposed “success” of shared-use trails out west. Ground Zero for mountain biking historically has been California’s Mt. Tamalpais. I haven’t seen Mt. Tam up close and personal for years – but a quick scan of the media tells me the trail wars there are still going on. It’s the inevitable clash of forces: bikers there are supposed to stick to the fire roads but keep trespassing onto hiking trails, and then come waves of controversy in the media and ripples within the regulatory bodies. Meanwhile, the mountain environment gets trashed by overuse and misuse. Is this the kind of guerrilla struggle and eventual outcome we want for our county parks?

By: Keith

Keith — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 02:53:29 +0000

Adam,
If my memory recalls correctly, the mention of biking in Tryon was in a section about neighborhoods – the Browncroft or Winton Neighborhood specifically. There may have even been a picture as well. It’s been a while since I’ve read it.

By: RocBike.com | The RocBike Review » Dispatches from the Front Lines of the Off-Road/On-Road War!

Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:06:47 +0000

[...] did a little bit of rabble rousing on Saturday when he came out against cycling! Check out his post to understand his reasoning. I [...]

By: Corey

Corey — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:38:24 +0000

I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone who advocates for more people riding bikes would try to limit mountain biking- a legitimate form of bicycle recreation that for too long has been EXCLUDED by the Monroe County Parks Dept. I love riding bikes. And if it wasn’t for my wife (an avid mountain bike racer) I wouldn’t have gotten into biking at all. I currently commute year round to work by bike and have recently moved our family to make bike commuting more feasible with 2 kids. Mountain biking is just another way to hook people on biking in general. Including them in county parks could increase the total amount of cyclists using roads and trails waking up this area to the fact that bicyclists are here and belong. I believe as soon as we (the bicycling community) start trying to exclude people from biking, we all lose. Besides, I surely doubt you’d see any big change in the amount of mountain bikers if they were allowed even in all county parks (some already ride them illegally anyway). If you legitimize them as park users, you’d see more maintenance of the trails. Look at Dryer Road. Our county needs to be a more inclusive and outdoors oriented one if we are to get any cycling culture to speak of. Go out West and see how bicyclists are included with designated places to ride and you you will see how truly deprived we are. There’s no bikes here because there’s no infrastructure. Lets not exacerbate it by excluding your fellow riders. I have to quote Ben Franklin on this one, “We must all hang together or surely we will all hang separately”.

By: Adam

Adam — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:36:33 +0000

Keith, could you post a link to the page on the City of Rochester’s site that calls Tryon a bike park? I can’t find it!

By: Keith

Keith — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:18:21 +0000

Jack,
I am a CYCLIST that commutes to work, rides roads, and mountain bikes. I’ve been on many of the trails that you have mentioned and never had issues with other trail users. I do feel that the Parks plan is a very good compromise of all of the interests involved. Tryon Park has long been a “bike” park, whether official or not. It’s even mentioned as such on the City of Rochester’s website. The current parks situation only encourages “rogue” biking, and bikers have no buy-in to the trails, so an uninformed few have used them when they shouldn’t be used by anyone (hikers included) – when they are wet and soft and easily damaged. Why should they care about the trails if they are “outlaws”? If you look into the IMBA rules of the trails – they state that bikers yield to everyone, leave no trace, stay on the trails, and ride in control at all times – that means being able to stop if encountering another trail user.
As for the the rail trails and such, it’s not really a substitute for MTB trails. Why do you hike the trails if we have rail trails and such? I think mountain bikers and hikers have a lot more in common than most realize.

By: Chris G

Chris G — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:57:19 +0000

I would like to comment on a few things stated in this post. In full disclosure, I am a city resident and an avid cyclist of many forms: road, commuting, cyclocross, and mountain.

I have been on the mailing list of the group (GROC) that is spearheading the efforts to legalize off road cycling in our parks, so I am familiar with the events that have transpired to date. I, too, just like the author of this blog post, have some reservations about the way this group is proceeding. It seems as though the group is trying to get rights to many parks in one shot. They are using the very positive response to parks where cycling focused organization has already happend, i.e. Dryer Road Park down in Victor. This is a very nice facility, and the trail systems are very well maintained. I agree with the group that this is a great example of what can be done, and how well it can be maintained. Off road cycling need not destroy the land, and Dryer is poof of this.

However, I feel that the efforts to gain access to many parks in Monroe county is not the right way to do this. They should focus on one or two parks initially, and perhaps at all. From the efforts that I have seen first hand at the Dryer Road park, the collaboration among participants to service the trails is fantastic. This service is mandatory to ecologically preserve the location. As the author of this post has stated, Tryon Park is an example of what happens when there is no such organization and maintenance.

I have ridden at Tryon Park many times. The times that I have been there, I have very rarely seen any pedestrians. It is my opinion, that Tryon, which already serves a large number of off road cyclists, should be the test case for the group (GROC). It would be a perfect demonstration of the ability of this organization to maintain and preserve the trails. Not to mention that this would provide a chance to repair the damage already done there.

Taking on too many parks at once would be a disaster for this group. I do not feel that they would get enough voluntary support to adequately protect all the parks. But, they have shown that they can responsibly oversee and protect land at Dryer. Let’s give them a chance with Tryon.